Author Topic: Selfish, greedy Katie - and trying to lie her way out of it  (Read 2009 times)

Offline Ender

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Re: Selfish, greedy Katie - and trying to lie her way out of it
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2009, 10:47:32 AM »
I have played roughly twenty thousand hours of Avalon over a period of 14 years.  Are you honestly trying to tell me that something significant has changed about the game or the players over that period that I'm not aware of?  No.  It's exactly the same game it was 4 years ago, which is the same game it was 8 years ago, etc.

The only changes which would potentially change the behaviour of players are:

*Stopping host play (you don't sit next to the person you kill)
*Switching from dial-up to internet and monthly billing (you can idle for free now)
*Prevalence of external methods of communication (MSN, forums etc)
*A change of player-base due to competition (WoW) and social acceptance (older people thinking it's not freakishly weird to game).

And if you read my post you will see that I freely admit that that Avalon is basically the same beast it has always been and in many regards healthier. 

And yes, talking about stuff to do with Avalon (which includes planning invasions and plotting) undermines the game.  -  Would you disagree with that?


Offline Narissa

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Re: Selfish, greedy Katie - and trying to lie her way out of it
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2009, 04:05:45 AM »
Not in one bit. I'm saying you're older and have moved on. When you were playing, I'm quite certain you'd have had your own cadre of complaints, issues and dramas. By taking time away, the game changes in how you perceive it, without actually changing at all.
Apollo, the God of light tells you, "It's always the loud ones..."


Offline Ender

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Re: Selfish, greedy Katie - and trying to lie her way out of it
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2009, 07:57:15 AM »
Not in one bit. I'm saying you're older and have moved on. When you were playing, I'm quite certain you'd have had your own cadre of complaints, issues and dramas. By taking time away, the game changes in how you perceive it, without actually changing at all.


This is the standard 'if you aren't playing right now your point of view is invalid' argument which always gets rolled out in discussions like this.

It seems to completely miss (or ignore) the fact that I have played Avalon for over 14 years, have left for long periods of time, returned, left, returned, played firsts seconds and thirds, etc. several of which you have no awareness of and actually play right now.

I am fully aware of the symptom you discuss, where the perception of the player changes but they attribute the change to the game.  However I am also fully aware of how this is effecting my judgment and my point (which you again seem to ignore) is that these problems I have identified have been present in the game for the last 14 years!

What you fail to admit is that:

A) communication outside of Avalon is a problem
B) it is a problem which has been going on for a long time
C) it is a problem which is getting worse and not better.

Please feel free to give a direct reply to three direct propositions.

Offline Narissa

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Re: Selfish, greedy Katie - and trying to lie her way out of it
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2009, 12:51:27 AM »
I'm not saying that your point is invalid. I'm about to enter a dormant stage myself, so I can hardly present myself as the bastion of activity. It seems like you're looking for a fight where there isn't one. I'm not really trying to disagree or debate with you.

a) communication outside Avalon is very much a problem. Not only have I said this in the past, I've been punished by the divine for criticizing gods who used things like msn to gossip/plan punishment. However, I think it is a problem in this way: when people use external communication to plan things that should be planned (with all the risks inherent) in game, such as political actions. Warfare I honestly cannot demand as needing to be planned IG, considering how complex and spammy the system is. Msn and so on makes it bearable and far easier on eyes/buffer.

b and c) obviously. The ways to freely communicate via the internet are growing, so it's logical that people would be doing it more. When I started playing, for example, Skype was not common - now it is.

With that said, Avalon tires me these days. If I login, I'll be swamped with demands, needs, requests, jumps, etc, so I tend to just leave my msn on and answer questions to people who ask them there (what does this comm do? What cures x? How do I do y?), so I guess I'll admit to becoming a hypocrite. A few years ago I'd rarely do such a thing - then again, a few years ago I was rather obsessed with Avalon - these days, it's just a game. Despite that, I still tend to keep politics for the game and msn for chatting, skill discussion, technical clarifications, etc.

Communication doesn't really equate to forums, though. These forums serve the role of entertainment, education (combat logs, skill discussion), and more general gaming "philosophy" chat. They also allow dormant players a way to keep in touch with the game, even if they are taking time off (which helps maintain the "community" feel of Avalon). I don't think anything occurs here that would otherwise occur IG, and that's when forums do become a problem, when people use them instead of the game. I don't really see that and I bet if Genesis allowed cities to write their own help files, you'd see forum activity drop even more.

Then again, many people will claim that Thakria's success is attributed to our forums, but I think it far more likely that forums were just the medium. The discussion and enthusiasm and dedication our group put in was the key catalyst, and forums were just how I easily coordinated that, especially the training. It was the people posting, not the posts, that made the city strong.
Apollo, the God of light tells you, "It's always the loud ones..."


Offline Kresslack

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Re: Selfish, greedy Katie - and trying to lie her way out of it
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2009, 11:41:44 AM »
Good to see you're still wasting Genesis' time and space on these boards. So it was up to her whether or not to make the animals loyal to you, which she clearly didn't intend to do....and it took you how long to come to that conclusion? About five paragraphs...really now.
You can run....but you'll just die tired.
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Given enough time, any man may master the physical. With enough knowledge, any man may become wise. It is the true warrior who can master both....and surpass the result.

Offline Rajj

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Re: Selfish, greedy Katie - and trying to lie her way out of it
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2009, 07:03:31 PM »
Good to see you're still wasting Genesis' time and space on these boards. So it was up to her whether or not to make the animals loyal to you, which she clearly didn't intend to do....and it took you how long to come to that conclusion? About five paragraphs...really now.

This board has what to do with Genesis?

This is Elmak's baby, has nothing to do with him, lol

Offline Kresslack

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Re: Selfish, greedy Katie - and trying to lie her way out of it
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2009, 07:02:08 PM »
Good to see you're still wasting Genesis' time and space on these boards. So it was up to her whether or not to make the animals loyal to you, which she clearly didn't intend to do....and it took you how long to come to that conclusion? About five paragraphs...really now.

This board has what to do with Genesis?

This is Elmak's baby, has nothing to do with him, lol

Genesis' time and space on these boards are two different things. Meaning, wasting Genesis' time, AND wasting space on these boards. >.>
You can run....but you'll just die tired.
              ~----------------------------~
Given enough time, any man may master the physical. With enough knowledge, any man may become wise. It is the true warrior who can master both....and surpass the result.