Author Topic: Gem Quest! - Sapphire  (Read 2862 times)

Offline Rajj

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Re: Gem Quest! - Sapphire
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2008, 11:18:12 AM »
We won't even mention the fact a Druid with unsurpassable skills was allowed to join the fray....forest eject, forest eject, forest eject, forest eject.

Ended up on your side too. Thakrian to the core! Whether a player OR a god!

Quite sad really.... Haven't met a diety who roleplays in a LOOOONG long time.
But that's for another topic!  ;D

Offline Narissa

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Re: Gem Quest! - Sapphire
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2008, 11:31:37 AM »
The goal wasn't to screw Salvador. I feel bad about that, as I've said, not because of the manipulation - it's a gem quest, the goal is to win the gem, fullstop - but because he's someone I'm very fond of and consider a good friend, and he's understandably pissed off and reconsidering that. The tactic was a good one, and Loki played his hand quite well, by giving first pick to Foxedup and undermining it. Salvador got messed over because he's a strong fighter, and we didn't want to see him and Orinoko both on the same team.

And, shrug, as I told Salvador, the outcome would probably have been pretty similar had I been on a "fall team" instead of him - in the end things broke down and were not really team-based, but more chaotic melee, which is why I was able to dart in and snag the sands.

That's the point of sands quests - the 58 minutes before the end doesn't really matter. Anything can, and does, happen.

I'm not saying that my actions were nice or polite - I'll openly admit that I feel bad about it - but trying to attack them claiming that they aren't suiting or "fair" is pointless. When it comes to gem quests, everyone pulls out all the stops, and manipulation/plotting is a longstanding large part of them.
 
edit: also, yeah, people have done stuff like this to me in past contests - you think I thought it was very fair that Kodiak had a magical portal to random places around the land in our sands quest? No, and I didn't like it, and yep, I fumed a bit. Now, I'm way past that and focusing on a productive response: getting a gem so I can have another shot.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 11:35:39 AM by Narissa »
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Offline Salvador

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Re: Gem Quest! - Sapphire
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2008, 01:41:39 PM »
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The goal wasn't to screw Salvador.

Unfortunately that's what happened anyway, so in spite of your logical reasoning, it doesn't do me any favours. As I said all I wanted was a fair opportunity and that was taken away by clever cunning, manipulative bitching, whatever you want to call it.

« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 04:35:56 PM by Salvador »

Offline Rakira

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Re: Gem Quest! - Sapphire
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2008, 08:20:15 PM »
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Probably the most unbalanced gem quest I've seen. But knowing who was in charge, it doesn't surprise me.

Do NOT bitch about Loki Rajj.
 
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We won't even mention the fact a Druid with unsurpassable skills was allowed to join the fray....forest eject, forest eject, forest eject, forest eject.

Lamothe was using her skills. Loki deemed it fair for a Druid to compete and quite frankly, it would make sense as the Druid's guild branched off from the Animists guild BECAUSE they wished to be more combative. Yes, forest eject was a pain, I'm sure, but so are stave forests, so is yanking, so is JJ, so is any other skill in any other guild set that annoys you. The only thing you can do is find a way around it, which Salvador for one managed to do.
 
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Why should a gem quest never be affected by money? Things like power, tactics and scheming are just as much at the heart of Avalon's power balance as the ability to swing a sword. Gem quests are not about finding the best fighter, although combat tends to be involved - rather, they are about offering unique circumstances for people to work within; adaptation, trickery and creative solutions are almost always involved in choosing the final winner.

Very well put. Avalon's not nice, Avalon's not fair, and there's never one point in time that someones not pissed off and doing underhanded tricks to get revenge. This is quite simply the world our characters live in. It's not cute and fluffy with all these rules for the better good and not a single crooked person in the world....It's closer to reality. Rules were made to be broken, and loop holes are every person sensible enough to find them's best friend. Yeah, the idea of a fall team was not very nice, but Orinoko even managed to over hear it, what was the price paid for that position, 30,000 coins? Was there not one person that could outbid her?
 
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That's the point of sands quests - the 58 minutes before the end doesn't really matter. Anything can, and does, happen.

To me, this about sums up what happened. For the longest time yeah, our team held those sands close, but you guys were able to snatch them from us and separate our team and keep the sands away from us. Twenty seconds is not a long time, Narissa was VERY lucky to obtain the sands within the allotted time. Anyone could have done it, by that point, our killer defences and Salvador's lack of a fighting team was not a true problem. The sands were switching hands constantly between all three teams, by sheer luck the team that was formed to win it happened to have a cunning player able to get them. I do believe Narissa would have been just as capable to get them at the end on the fall team as she was on our team. By that time, it was player vs. player.
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Offline Uwoiame

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Re: Gem Quest! - Sapphire
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2008, 10:35:38 PM »
Thieves are famous for winning Sandquests. In a chaotic end phase like you all described this quest ended in, thieves are best equiped to grab them. Even Caelred managed to win a gem that way.
 
Thus, when picking teams, its up to the team captain to snatch the most clever thief first. If that thief has a high survivability then you got yourself a winning team.
 
just my 2 pence

Offline Salvador

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Re: Gem Quest! - Sapphire
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2008, 08:12:03 AM »
It was just so, farcical. You made some excellent points Rakira, you mentioned a killer defence for one, well I had me, so unfortunately I did not have such a luxury, would it have made a difference? Who knows? I never got the chance to find out, my POV was me having to fight 20+ people virtually alone, thanks to Narissa's manipulation. I had no staves, I had no rituals, I had no thieves, I had no healers, I had nothing, and I truly mourn the loss of my fair shot.  Regardless of the fact I held the sands for whatever miniscule time, one person against such odds with no support of any kind, is NOT going to win. It was certainly an interesting night, the first gemquest I have taken part in where my goal was NOT to help Narissa, and I certainly paid the price for that didn't I?

Offline Trakea

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Re: Gem Quest! - Sapphire
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2008, 10:08:06 AM »
OK, my response to this conversation is EXTREMELY different on this board than it is in land.  I'll address the easy points first.
 
With respect to Lamothe, she was picked 4th or 5th depending on if you count Llavendar's team.  Narissa was the first person to ask whether she'd be allowed and also asked for clarification on skill use.  Foxedup had 2 chances to select her, but it did not cross his mind to do so.  Point for Narissa for thinking outside the box here. 
 
With respect to the talk about balance and fairness, their has never been a gemquest in my time, aside from Aldaron's, where once again coin was certainly involved.  And in my opinion Avalon is never fair, nor balanced.  Even in the 1 on 1 combat quest last year, Kodiak used Orc Town, Kureishi died, and Dunccan quit.  Someone ALWAYS gets screwed depending on what perspective you take.  This continues into general life in the land, whether it be the best fighters getting skills downgraded when people bitch too much, High Priests and Chosen Ones overusing power (something I've been accused of and may even be guilty of once or twice), people blatantly abusing DDW or PW to enact their will, and so on.
 
So, any expectation of a fair gemquest for all sides is unrealistic and naive.  Yes, Salvador got screwed here.  But Narissa made NO secret as to what her plan was.  She flaunted it on every bug rune laid about in Center Square, a place where I know for a fact Salvador has a rune.  She even said her price.  Anyone could have beat her to the punch.  And quite frankly, the fact that money was involved and our intentions were known made it all the more fair.  What is more basic, more available, to everyone in Avalon than coin? 
 
Did Salvador get screwed, yes.  Did Narissa take advantage of his trust somewhat? Probably.  Does Salvador have every right to be thoroughly pissed off in his role as Salvador? Sure.  But, from the outset Loki said "Whoever wins the gem will need to demonstrate perfection in many forms".  Ask yourself did Narissa do this?  She came in second in the races behind Tukar, who abstained.  Check.  She inquired thoroughly before purchasing the third captain spot and developed a cunning strategy to ensure her better chance of succes.  Check. She stole the sands at the very last second to win the second stage for her team and arranged a rather creative team for defence. Check.  And she seems to be on her way to thoroughly whooping the remaining fighters left in her way during personal combat. Check. 
 
So, yes, state how it ended up being beneficial for me and that these points mean nothing.  But, I am no different than any of you, ending this whole affair gemless.
 
And really, something I would never say in land, but I will say it here.  Narissa had EVERY right to screw over Salvador.  He was a baron and a lifelong dedicated Thakrian that turned Parrian Bard to pursue his own PERSONAL goals.  He made the choice to put himself ahead of Thakria.  I guarantee if he had stayed Thakrian, or even returned after he gained the profession, Narissa would have made every attempt to help him get the gem.  Narissa is Thakria's Princess, and Salvador gave up any protection as a citizen when he left Thakria.  Narissa owes nothing to Salvador, and any expectation she would help him is again, naive.  Yes, it's cold and crass, but it's the truth.
 
In short, don't hate the player, don't hate the game, hate yourself for not covering your ass.

Offline Salvador

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Re: Gem Quest! - Sapphire
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2008, 11:22:03 AM »
I was actually in your location helping you strategise Orinoko out of the game, if you remember. And I would like to point out, I didn't expect HELP from Narissa, I expected indifference, if that is naive, then yes, I'm an idiot for trusting her.

Offline Rajj

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Re: Gem Quest! - Sapphire
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2008, 09:16:06 PM »
So, any expectation of a fair gemquest for all sides is unrealistic and naive. 

Actually it's not unrealistic and naive for THIS GEM because we all know this was supposed to be the Gem of Equilbirium, so expect a balanced event.

If the gods are put that in the help file, they ought to follow through. I mean it says it, right in the help file.

To Rakira: I'll say whatever I want about someone who doesn't know a lick about RP, and abused things as a player and a god. I have no respect for people like that. When you become a god you are supposed to be indifferent of your past. He wasn't so he can kiss my ass.

Offline Rakira

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Re: Gem Quest! - Sapphire
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2008, 09:36:51 PM »
If I remember correctly, Narissa was originally going to do two dive teams, but Loki did not allow Foxedup give up captaincy. Not to mention, Tukar did in fact put his captaincy up for auction. Loki did not disallow any bids, so I would say that was very fair and non biased. If he was all for Thakira would he have not granted Foxedup's wish to renounce captaincy?
 
Further more, if you're going to start going off about Gods choosing sides, what exactly do you make of the fact that all four cities have patrons? Are these patrons not biased upon those whom they choose to reign over?
 
Plus, I do not see you doing any kind of RPing so who are you to judge his RP skills? If you want to do that shouldn't we ask someone whose actually a good RPer to be the judge?
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Offline Trakea

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Re: Gem Quest! - Sapphire
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2008, 06:35:34 AM »
I'll ignore the RP comments because a) I doubt I'd change your mind and b) I didn't know Kodiak for long enough to decide whether he did or did not abuse anything. Aside from that though, you bring back the question of balance.  I return to my previous post and point out that Narissa has demonstrated an EQUAL and BALANCED set of skills, both in and out of combat, during this gem quest.  If you think someone else has peformed more effectively in such a diverse set of circumstances, I'm all ears.
 
And yes, I recognize your comment refers to the event itself, rather than Narissa's actions.  However, I think one can only judge the event itself by the performance of the winner, and Narissa has certainly exceeded expectations in every facet of the quest. 
 
Lastly, on your point about the past.  Kodiak was FAR friendlier to Salvador than he ever was to Narissa.  In fact, Kodiak and Narissa more or less hated each other.  As Loki, Narissa made her idea abundantly clear, yet Loki decided to remove any knowledge of a past grudge held by Kodiak.

Offline Rakira

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Re: Gem Quest! - Sapphire
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2008, 08:43:04 AM »
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In fact, Kodiak and Narissa more or less hated each other.

Now That's an understatement! Anyone at the last gem quest Kodiak won may recall Narissa complaining about it Just Below the Clouds in front of everyone. Their hate was notoriously known. I cannot see The Kodiak Bear throwing Narissa any favours in a gem quest, whereas Loki allowed some of those things.
~Rakira Ramsay-Rinato~

Offline Narissa

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Re: Gem Quest! - Sapphire
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2008, 09:20:21 AM »
I'd say it was something a bit more complex than simple hate, but I think it's accurate to state that he'd certainly do me no favours, especially considering the potential poetic justice inherent if I were to win the first gem quest held by him as a god.
Apollo, the God of light tells you, "It's always the loud ones..."


Offline Narissa

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Re: Gem Quest! - Sapphire
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2008, 12:05:45 PM »
Very amusing turn of events. :D
 
Recap for any who weren't there:
 
I came home on lunchbreak to finish things up - very bad idea, but overconfidence is dangerous. Was in a hurry to end it, and I decided to push through on my chugging internet (noon is always a bad time). Karma did its thing, and internet dropped when I was in rits. Reconnected to find myself a ghost.
 
I'm giggling at how that all turned out - a good reminder to us all of just how unexpected things can be.
 
India is a good person to win one. She's been loyal and dedicated and a strong player - it's about time.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 12:08:40 PM by Narissa »
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Offline Rakira

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Re: Gem Quest! - Sapphire
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2008, 12:28:02 PM »
Despite a bad connection, I'm sure you put up a great fight! I agree with you, it's neat that India was able to get a gem, and you can always snag another, more thief helpful one down the road!
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